The Secret Ingredient Is The Emotional Support Chicken: An Interview with Carmela Dutra

Hot takes? More like hot wings. Carmela Dutra stopped by to talked about HOT WINGS AND HOMICIDE the sequel to A MURDER MOST FOWL, a cozy murder mystery series centered around twins who run a hot wings food truck. We played SPACE EM OR EMBRACE EM and BRING YOUR OWN BOOK.

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Transcript

Booked All Night 0:02

Welcome to Booked All Night, the podcast where hot tapes we craft notes and no one gets enough sleep. I'm Jess. I'm Katie. I'm Julia. I'm Maggie. Get ready for unhinged hot tapes. A whole lot of books, midnight giggles, and zero shame. Grab your blankets, booklets. It's time to get booked all night. I'm your host, Jessica Mary, and today I am joined by Carmela Dutra, author of A Murder Most Foul and Hot Wings and Homicide. And I realize now I did not check to make sure that I am pronouncing your name correctly.

Carmela 0:34

You're good, Carmela, but you're you're totally good. You can call me Carmi. That's what most people do. So Carmichael. Carmichael here.

Booked All Night 0:41

Okay. Well, welcome to the pod. I'm glad you're here. Kindly tell us and the audience all about your book.

Carmela 0:46

First, thank you for having me. I'm super excited to be here with you, Jess. Um, my name's Carmela Dutra. I'm from the Bay Area in California, and I write a cozy mystery series about a set of fraternal twins who inherit a chicken-themed food truck. And in book one, they decide to enter a cooking competition that takes a literal meaning during the elimination round when a contestant is found dead in the back of their truck. Oh no! So in book one, the stakes are really high for my sleuth because not only was she the last one seen arguing on camera with the victim, but they had a heated rivalry outside of the show, and it involves stealing parking spots from each other because it's all a bunch of food trucks. Um and in book those parking spots are important. Like they were oh yeah. I mean, anybody who's ever been in San Francisco knows how hard it is to get a parking spot, and imagine trying to do that with an 18-foot food truck. Um and then book two, we still have my twins, and this time with their best friend Riley, she's also in book one, she's the giant chicken. Uh they go to a food festival just for food trucks, and that's set or based off of a real event that happens here in the Bay Area called Foodie Land. And who shows up but my main sleuth, Beth Lloyd, her ex-boyfriend, who is now a food critic that has a lot of hate behind him, and he also ends up dead with one of their clucking good tumblers, and her brother this time is on the chopping block because he was the last one seen punching Brad before he died.

Booked All Night 2:18

Sounds so fun. I've I always want to like everybody comes on to the podcast and they all have like such interesting books. I'm like, guys, I have limited shelf space, I don't have a lot of this. I'm running out of space on my Kindle, which I did not believe could happen because text files are so light and airy.

Carmela 2:37

Like it's hard. There's not enough time in the day to read all the books that we went to too as well. Like, I've throughout this journey I've connected with so many authors, and I just finished a mystery convention, Left Coast Crime, and I'm like, there's so many books. My luggage only allows me to take home so many with me. And so it's it's really hard. It's like I can't I can't pick my favorite pet, but you expect me to pick a favorite book? Okay. Right?

Booked All Night 3:00

How do I do this? I when when I was a younger book nerd, because I'm like almost 40 at this point, my body is not about cons. Yeah. Uh my uh one of the other hosts who's not here with us today, Maggie and I had gone to BookCon, which is a big East Coast, it's connected to like all the big five publishers, like well, it then was six, and now it's all merged. It's all confusing and obnoxious. But we had gone and one year they moved out to Chicago. We went to Chicago. I specifically brought a suitcase just for the books. Ooh, that's smart. And we still did not fit all of them into the book when we moved on in our little role like into the suitcase when we moved on to our like next stop in our our road trip. And I was like, what are we gonna do? This thing is enormous, it's heavy, like books are heavy, especially the hardbacks.

Carmela 3:56

Oh my lord.

Booked All Night 3:57

Oh my god, I had I had hardbacks, I had advanced copies, I had paperbacks, like plus all of the extra bougie stuff that I bought, right? I had all the the tote bags and pins and shirts, and there was like this cute little headband that I got. Like, everything is in this suitcase. I'm like, I gotta mail this home. I spent like over a hundred dollars mailing.

Carmela 4:17

All the authors appreciated that.

Booked All Night 4:20

Yes, I'm sure they did because I went, I was like, guess who just got her financial aid refund? There it goes. Woo! Yeah, it was oh, it was so heavy. And it's so hard because even when I go to local book stuff, we have a bunch of local little uh book fests here, and it's it's hard. I'm like, I want to buy more, but I already have back problems, and I can't hold more. And that one looks interesting, so let me take a card and stick it in my back pocket so I can order it online.

Carmela 4:51

Like it's just Yeah, that's a good way to do it too.

Booked All Night 4:53

Yeah. You're so, so nuts. So, with that loveliness, we're gonna play a quick game of superlatives.

Carmela 5:02

Okay.

Booked All Night 5:02

And I explained it to you before the podcast, it's just, you know, most likely to, least likely to, and you just tell us about the characters from your series.

Carmela 5:09

Sounds fun. Let's do it.

Booked All Night 5:10

Alright, so the first one is most likely to get something too spicy from a food truck.

Carmela 5:16

Ooh. Um, I'm gonna say that's gonna be her brother Seth. I haven't quite delved down that rabbit hole yet, but I have a feeling like he's not gonna do super well a spice.

Booked All Night 5:24

Okay. Number two, most likely to start a food fight at a culinary festival.

Carmela 5:30

That would be Beth. High hands down.

Booked All Night 5:32

You're like, I know these two don't mean that is most likely to confess to a crime they didn't commit while eating a plate of hot wings.

Carmela 5:42

I think that would also be Beth, because she doesn't always stop to think before she speaks, and that's how she gets herself in trouble a lot.

Booked All Night 5:49

Same. Big same. Most likely to realize something obvious while taste testing a new recipe.

Carmela 5:59

That would be her cooking inept assistant on the truck, Riley Cortez. While she can't cook, she is great at taste testing. Well, that's good.

Booked All Night 6:09

Sucks that you're on a food truck and you can't cook, though.

Carmela 6:12

It's kind of the humor that goes in with it. Um, and some of this also came about because I have a cousin who used to work on a food truck, and so she told me some stories, and I'm like, that'd be so fun to like lean into the chaoticness because it's such a cramped space, and then imagine somebody trying to be helpful and they burn a batch of sliders on the flat top and they end up smoking out their entire truck, which does happen.

Booked All Night 6:32

Does happen. Oh my god. Can you imagine having like an argument and you're just trying to work with that person and they're literally like touching butts because food trucks are so tight. I don't think people fully understand. There's no such thing as like there's no personal space. Yeah, there's none. There's no personal space in a food truck.

Carmela 6:50

The last- I have three people working in my food truck in the series, so yeah, it's very familiar.

Booked All Night 6:55

I don't believe that they fit.

Carmela 6:58

There's some there's some fun movement that happens, and you know, they're twins, so there's a lot of arguing that happens naturally.

Booked All Night 7:05

I we talk a lot about like the suspension of disbelief on on the podcast, because it's always little things that take us out. What took you out of of Carmi's books? Oh, uh that she fit three people on a food truck. I don't believe that. Yeah, I don't believe that for a hot second. So the last one is most likely to turn a casual conversation into a full investigation.

Carmela 7:26

Beth.

Booked All Night 7:27

Beth.

Carmela 7:28

Yeah.

Booked All Night 7:29

Lovely. Brings us.

Carmela 7:31

She's gonna be trying her best to be casual, but her conversations will always come back to asking questions that are not so casual.

Booked All Night 7:39

Yeah, what kind of chicken do you like? Did you murder that guy? Right? Yeah, no? Okay, fine. Just just jacking. So the mystery kicks off when a notorious food critic, as you mentioned, and Beth's ex turns up dead with a clucking good tumbler at the scene. What made that personal connection between Beth and the victim such an interesting way to launch the story?

Carmela 8:01

Well, so her ex-boyfriend, there's a little bit of um in Easter egg in book one about him and their Rocky past and how he dumped her during a karaoke session for his stepcousin. Um, and so that ended up being something that I wanted to play with more, but I needed something to directly tie more than just okay, she doesn't like him, they have unresolved issues, her brother doesn't like him. There needed to be something solid that would logically connect them together. Um, and her finding him and then the police discovering their branded mug was the perfect brainstorm session that my agent and I had to link the two together, undeniably. It's like I think about all the branded stuff I get when I go to festivals, and I'm like, you couldn't tell me I had a personal connection to some of these booths off of like the branded stuff does help too, because when I was at um I was at Left Coast, I kept leaving my water bottle behind, but it was branded with my logo and it had my website on underneath it, and so they were able to just email me, come back and pick up your water bottle. I left my phone, I left all kinds of stuff. So the branded stuff did connect me and it was easy to find me, which is great. But then I also realized I'm like, that's how you get yourself wrapped up in a murder investigation. That's great. Hopefully, not in real life though. Okay.

Booked All Night 9:26

Yes, remember add add just like a little asterisk on your your branded material. Not guilty of murder here by coincidence. Please see back, and there's just like a list of terms and conditions about not murdering people. It's fine, it's fine. So the flavors of the Bay Food Festival feels like such a vibrant and chaotic backdrop. What about that setting made it the perfect place for rivalries, secrets, and motives to collide?

Carmela 9:53

There's so much happening there. Um, and I, you know, one of the things too, growing up, I was always taught there's safety in numbers when there's a large amount of people, it's you're you're gonna be safer. But that actually leads to the can lead to the opposite end where there are so many eyes, yet nobody saw anything, or everybody saw something different. So there's so many conflicting stories. So it was it worked as a natural backdrop for me of trying to follow the the breadcrumbs, but everybody has a different take on what happened. And even when she sees something happening, she can start to question well, did I actually really see that? Because nobody else can confirm it with me. So it it also kept everything in one area, which built into a natural pressure cooker there too, because all these trucks are competing for foot traffic and for customers to come. So you have the main murder that's happening, but then you have these other little side plots between food trucks and the competition that's happening there.

Booked All Night 10:49

It I like that you're saying, you know, like the safety numbers, number one, like as a fellow girl, well, I was told never to go anywhere alone. Yep. It doesn't matter where you are, how many people there are, you don't go there by yourself, buddy system for life. Uh and the other one is there was an experiment, I think Mythbusters did one on it, but it was about the like inconsistencies of eyewitness testimony, and how they they staged a robbery in a park and had people like change hoodies, grab a different bag, and and like just switch stuff out. And so everybody had different stories about this, and they were like, oh no, it was this really tall white guy, and actually they had a relatively short black guy do it, and uh he was wearing a red hoodie, but he had like turned it inside out, and it was actually a blue hoodie, and and there were all all of these things. Like, nobody got a hundred percent of the story correct, and then they did one where they didn't change anything, and the same thing, nobody got one hundred percent of the story correct because everybody's got like mixed things, there's so many things that influence our brain while we're out in in the world, and we just can't yeah.

Carmela 12:05

And first I just want to say I love that show, so thank you for referencing that because I've I'm finding we're we're on the same age here, and I'm like, Oh, you don't know Mythbusters, that's such a great show. Um, I loved all the different things because I do remember that episode, and it also leans into that. Um there's like a psychological term with it, how because there's so many eyes, it helps you to also remove yourself from it because you're assuming somebody else is gonna speak up, somebody else is gonna say something, but then everybody starts feeling that way, and nobody speaks up and everybody misses it. Um and that's something that also happens in the book. She she saw something, and so she's asking about it. And one of the festival workers is like, I'm gonna need something more than beige. And because you look around, that's like a color that a lot of people wear, and some it's in the middle of summer, so we're gonna need some more than that. And it's like, well, wait a minute. Like you said, you have all these people mixing in, all these outfits changing in and out. It's very easy for it all to blend together and get confusing.

Booked All Night 13:00

Yep. So Beth and Seth are immediately under suspicion when the investigation begins. How did writing a mystery where the protagonist is already in the hot seat shape the tension and pacing of the story?

Carmela 13:13

I think it also gave her um a natural, like that was like a catalyst because she's also trying to protect her brother. So immediately it's she's she's two minutes older, but she's also legally seven years younger than him because she was born on leap day. But she has this innate feeling of like, I need to protect my brother, but he also has the same feeling toward her. So it's personal because it's her ex, but it's we're right here. I need to protect my brother, I'm going to do what I have to do to protect him and try and solve this because it's it's personal for her. And then that helps me to also get into her head because I think about myself and like if one of my relatives, if one one somebody that I love is being accused of something, how am I going to react? What is going to be my emotional gauge for everything? How am I going to enter this? So that's how I built her. And as the series goes on, she'll grow and more things will happen.

Booked All Night 14:07

Ooh, more things. Sounds like you have ideas for later things in the series already.

Carmela 14:13

Yeah. So I already have book three is almost finished with my my stuff. And um, you know, feathers crossed, we'll be able to get more books in the series after book two comes out.

Booked All Night 14:24

Very nice on finishing book three. Thank you. Congratulations, claps, claps, claps. Because books are hard.

Carmela 14:31

Book three, book three was hard for me. It's been hard, but it's been um thankfully I have a wonderful agent who's loves to brainstorm. So that's been a tremendous help having her to bounce ideas off of and help direct which way I should go. Because I had a different direction for book three, and Lindsay was able to help me see, you know what, we need to, we need to go a little bit different, give her some distance between knowing the victims. Let's let's try and reshape it this way. And it was just a great session that we had.

Booked All Night 14:58

I love bouncing ideas with fellow writers. It is so much fun to like get into somebody else's world and story and poke holes on their plot and just be like, well, what if this happened? And then you both kind of sit there and it gets built up. One time uh a friend let me throw them around a room because I was like, if if you got thrown this way, uh, would you be able to grab the edge of a roof? And we were just curious if the hands would naturally kind of come out and and I love this.

Carmela 15:30

You do the same thing.

Booked All Night 15:31

Yeah. Um like I just need to know. Like, if if you like rolled, would you and you didn't have like special training, would you have the dexterity to grab and and save yourself? And we decided no, that you wouldn't.

Carmela 15:43

So Yeah, I mean, but it but you need to make sure it's believable. So like I love it. I do the same thing. I my husband is my guinea peg, and he's the one who tests everything. Um, there was only one one time when he said absolutely no way, and it was I needed to know which way you would fall if you got need in the groin. He's like, absolutely not. So he's like, nope, that's not happening. He's like, just take my word for it, it will land this way. And I'm like, but I don't know. I talked with with a friend who's an ex-cop and she's like, it could happen this way. He's like, nope, it's not happening. He's like, just deal with it. Um and then I have another friend, she's like, What am I gonna get in return? So I have done a couple of like body outlines in my driveway with chalk, and she gets, you know, food afterwards, so it all works out.

Booked All Night 16:22

That's the best way to pay me, by the way, is with food. Um my husband secured me. He was like, You want to go on a date? He's a cookie.

Carmela 16:32

I'm telling you, love is not through the heart, it's through the stomach.

Booked All Night 16:35

It definitely is. It definitely is. I am very much like a lost little puppy dog. If you feed me, I will be around for forever. Because I know where the food comes from.

Carmela 16:46

But it has to be good food.

Booked All Night 16:47

It has to yes, it has to be good food. You can't be coming up here with like little Caesar's pizza and telling me. I got food. It's hot and it's ready, but is it good?

Carmela 17:00

It's hot is a difference. It's hot and it's ready, but that doesn't mean it's good.

Booked All Night 17:03

Yeah. Oh. That brings us to the very first game of the podcast, which is called Space Em or Embrace Em.

Carmela 17:12

Okay. Tell me how this works. I'm excited.

Booked All Night 17:14

I will as soon as Rob tells us that we're back after But we're good. Yay! Alright. So you're so you're traveling through the cosmos with a cargo full of tropes and cliches when suddenly your ship gets pulled toward a black hole. In order to escape, you have to jettison some cargo, and you have to get rid of enough cargo, which is a magic number that I rolled before this interview, in order to escape. Unfortunately, there is a computer error, so you can only see two pieces of cargo at a time. Your job in this game is to tell me which one stays and which one goes. And today I am testing out a new rule, so you're going to be my little guinea pig today. Okay. You also have a limited number of rounds in which we go through all the cargo that is left before you get crushed into a state of infinite density and volume inside the black hole.

Carmela 18:02

Giving me anxiety over here. Oh my goodness.

Booked All Night 18:04

Yeah, the games are meant to torture you. They're fun for us. They're never fun for guests. It's fine. It's fine. Do you have any questions about that?

Carmela 18:13

Probably a lot. I'm trying to make sure I get it, but let's just go for it. Let's see it, see how I do. I'm convinced I'm gonna be crushed in the cosmos, but that's okay.

Booked All Night 18:20

Okay, here we go. Round one. Love triangles or found family.

Carmela 18:25

Okay, so I have to separate I have to get rid of one of those, right?

Booked All Night 18:28

At the very least, well, I would recommend getting rid of one of them, because you don't know how many you have to get rid of, or it gets sucked into the black hole. You can toss both of them or keep them, and we'll come back to them in a later round, but I don't recommend.

Carmela 18:40

Found family. Let's get rid of found family, keep love triangle.

Booked All Night 18:42

Found family, gone. Rival chefs with secret grudges, or killing the fan favorite character.

Carmela 18:51

Ooh, that's a hard one. I kinda wanna be mean because I know who one of the fan favorite characters is, and she's my best friend in real life. Okay, give it to me one more time. It was the rival chef that you said?

Booked All Night 19:07

Yeah, rival chefs with secret grudges or killing the fan favorite character.

Carmela 19:12

Gotta go with the killing off the fan favorite. Kill my darlings. I need to know what those secrets are. Killing off the fan favorite.

Booked All Night 19:18

Writing the ending before the beginning, or amateur sleuths ignoring police warnings.

Carmela 19:25

Um get rid of amateur sleuth. Amateur sleuth.

Booked All Night 19:30

Dramatic final chapter reveals or food descriptions that make readers hungry.

Carmela 19:37

Dramatic reveal. I want to keep my food. Okay.

Booked All Night 19:41

Food descriptions that make readers hungry. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to read. We're not there. It's plotting mysteries with sticky notes everywhere, or talking through plot problems with pets.

Carmela 19:54

Get rid of the sticky notes. I talk to my pets all the time. They'd be upset if they weren't involved.

Booked All Night 19:59

So you are not down to the magic number, so here goes round two.

Carmela 20:02

Okay.

Booked All Night 20:04

Love triangles or rival chefs with secret grudges.

Carmela 20:09

Get rid of love triangle. I need another secret grudges.

Booked All Night 20:13

Writing the ending before the beginning or food descriptions that make readers hungry.

Carmela 20:19

Oh. Okay, get rid of the ending. The food, the foodie talk has to stay. Has to stay.

Booked All Night 20:25

And we'll do these together. Food descriptions that make readers hungry or talking through plot problems with pets.

Carmela 20:34

You know what? I have enough personalities in my own head. Get rid of the pets.

Booked All Night 20:39

So you did manage to escape the black hole, and all you have left are rival chefs with secret wredges and food descriptions that make readers hungry.

Carmela 20:46

Okay. I could do I could work with that. I could work with that.

Booked All Night 20:49

So what I do before that game is I roll a D4, and uh, just because you know it's more fun the lower the number there is. One time I rolled a one, and it we didn't have the rule for I'm only giving you X number of rounds to go through this to forever. And it was so excruciating, and they were just like, oh my god, please. So that brings us to our second round of questions, and these are all about writing craft and your personal reading habits. Okay. So cozy mysteries. Yeah. Cozy mysteries walk a very careful line between humor and high-stakes crime. When you're writing, how do you decide when to lean into the comedy and when to let the tension take center stage?

Carmela 21:36

I kind of sometimes just let the characters decide that as I'm writing. Um I do it is it is a fine tightrope walk of the humor, especially in my series, is is a big part of it. Um and sometimes that's you know how we deal in life with situations is we lean into humor, whatever that may be. Um, but I'm also trying to be sympathetic and aware that. While it is a cozy mystery, there is something real that's happened. There is there is a murder, and that is a serious thing. So when that moment is happening, when they're discovering a body or they're going through that moment of unraveling clues, the tension needs to lean in heavy there. That's not the time to be cracking jokes about the corpse on the ground. Um, even though you know that may happen in my family, like we make a joke about each other, but at that moment it's I need to lean into the tension. And usually as I'm as I'm writing that and the characters take over, that does help. I let I let them lead the way in the story. That's nice. I like that answer.

Booked All Night 22:32

So when you are developing a new book, uh, do you start with the puzzle of the crime or with the personalities of the characters investigating it?

Carmela 22:40

Oh, I like that question. Um, I do start with the motive actually. So before anything, I always think of I know someone's going to die, but who stands to benefit or to lose? Like what is going to to drive the killer? Um, what's the emotional reason behind that? And so once I start thinking about about that, going through it, I'm able to come up with about maybe four or five characters that could fit that. Then I also then that's where I'm like, okay, now who would the victim be? I do have a running list on my phone of different ways to kill a person. Uh I have a great friend who is a pediatrics nurse, and she comes up with some amazing suggestions, mildly scary because of her ideas, but I do know, okay, I'm gonna go like this direction in the book because I've already killed somebody this way. Let's go something fresh. Now, who is gonna benefit from that? And then once I have that at my ending, then I work backwards and develop the characters. Okay.

Booked All Night 23:40

I have I have a funny related story that I have told many times on this podcast, but it's still funny. It's not to me. I want to hear it. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So you gotta hear it. So when I was doing my master's project, I was uh writing a uh murder mystery, and I had a folder on my computer full of decomposing bodies, and I had ordered them of like this, you know, like one week, two week, three week, blah blah blah blah blah. And I was at work and I had a lot of downtime at my job because my job was like I could do all of the work that I need to do by noon, because you took away some permissions, and now I've got nothing to do. So I went back to writing my thesis, and my boss came up behind me, and I've just got a whole bunch of photos of dead, decaying bodies on the screen, and he's like, uh and I turned around, and the first thing that came out of my mouth where my brain was like, Oh, this is an easy explanation. It's for a project, it's okay.

Carmela 24:36

I love that because I would do something, I would totally have something like that happen. I have had something similar like that happen, but uh that is hysterical because there's there's no context for your boss. It's like, I'm sorry, what?

Booked All Night 24:46

Yeah, exactly. He was like, What? I'm like, so I'm writing this book that I will get graded on. And he's like, uh, and he's like, Don't you write children's lit? I'm like, yeah, young adults, children's lit. I can get gory with with some of the details. It's fine. But yeah, he was like, I why? Why, Jessica, why?

Carmela 25:11

The visuals are important. It it's important. You know, that was something that I learned from my agent is even though you're writing fiction, whatever is in the book, your if your readers want to look it up, they can go online, they need to be able to make sure it's accurate. So you do have to make sure it's accurate.

Booked All Night 25:28

I there's um oh, who is this? Neil deGrasse Tyson has always reminded me that someone somewhere knows you're wrong because when uh James Cameron had put out the Titanic, right? And everybody's watched Titanic, the movie, the stars in the sky that night were incorrect for where they were and the time of year and everything else. And Neil deGrasse Tyson was like, Well, that's wrong. And I'm like, Yeah, that's what we're focused on. But but at the same time, I've absolutely done that. We read um This Fatal Kiss by Alicia Jassinska, and we got so hung up on how buses work in this little fantasy world. We were like, wait, there's bosses available? What's technology like? And we just went on this whole bender of information that maybe wasn't relevant to the actual plot line, but like that's that's what happens.

Carmela 26:16

Just these little things.

Booked All Night 26:18

Little itty bitty things. And this season we're watching, well, we're reading and watching the Hunger Games series. We're doing a whole thing leading all the way up to Sunrise on the Reaping in November. And last recording session, we were watching the Catching Fire movie together so that we could do all of our commentary. And Julia, one of the hosts, uh, she teaches horseback riding, and she's like, it drives me nuts that the horses aren't in sync. Because if they were really like chariot horses, they would have been trained to have tr be trotting in sync. And I'm like, it's the little things, it's the little bitty details. Like any, like I used to teach archery. Anytime Katniss doesn't anchor to her cheek, I'm like, that shot's not going where you want it to go because you're not in form, and it it's it's insane what those little details will do to someone who knows that that detail is incorrect.

Carmela 27:08

You'll you'll just be like it's like going back to Mythbusters, if you remember that one episode about shooting the gun. You you it won't happen this way, but you see that in movies all the time, and I'm like, Mythbusters debunked that. That's not how it happens, that's not how any of this happens. And then I talk with with a friend who's a retired police officer, she's like, nope, you can't do it that way. It's always you always do it this way. And I'm like, yeah, I'm like, see, that little stuff does end up ruining it for me. It does. So I do understand. Yep.

Booked All Night 27:33

Just little things. Little everybody things. So as a reader, what kinds of mysteries or storytelling styles most influence the way you think about clues, pacing, and a satisfying reveal?

Carmela 27:47

That's a good one. Um so sometimes I do take notes when I'm reading books because I like to kind of track the red herrings, I like to track the misdirections, the clues, try to find the Easter eggs. Um, and so that was something that I started doing before I started writing mysteries. And it did looking at that, looking at that formula and kind of breaking that down helped me to be able to implement that same thing. But there are times where I just disassociate and I'm just a reader, just trying to enjoy the story.

Booked All Night 28:16

I absolutely so I have uh really bad ADHD and I take my meds at night because they make me a little like woozy. And I am also a writer, and so when I get into a book, I'm into a book, right? But then my brain is like, hey, remember that idea you had? And then suddenly I'm staring at the page and my eyes are still going back and forth, and my hand is still like moving the page, but my brain is drafting something, and I'm like, wait, wait, where did I check out?

Carmela 28:47

Where did I check out? That has happened to me too, yeah. Where it's like I'm reading something, I was like, wait a minute, that's how I unlock something like this, and then I just drop it and I take off running and I go write it down. Um, because because it does unlock stuff that way, but it can also be frustrating too, because you're just trying to enjoy the book you're reading.

Booked All Night 29:02

I'm like, I just I just want to read, and then I'm like several, several pages later, I'm like, what who the hell is this person? Where the what is going on? It's so bad. It it's so terrible. I hate when it happens. Like, I'm glad that it happens and I solve whatever issue I'm working on, but man, it's so obnoxious.

Carmela 29:19

I think it's obnoxious for my husband because that'll happen when we're watching shows. Um, we just recently finished binging elementary again, the American Sherlock Holmes. And there was an episode I was like, wait a minute, that's how I need it. And I think we were maybe five minutes in, and I didn't come back for another 40 minutes, and he's like, Can we finish this now?

Booked All Night 29:40

Yeah, um, the same way, it's terrible. It's so terrible. That brings us to the second game of the podcast, which is called Bring Your Own Book.

Carmela 29:51

Okay.

Booked All Night 29:52

I have it. So, yes, you have your own book. This is exciting. So, have you played Cards Against Humanity?

Carmela 29:58

A couple of times.

Booked All Night 30:00

Wonderful. So it's very similar rules in that I have all of the prompts with some blanks, and your book is going to fill in for the white cards.

Carmela 30:07

Okay.

Booked All Night 30:08

Now, because we are a podcast and we don't wanna kinda sit there for like five minutes as the original rules of the game say, um, you're just gonna flip to a random page and you're gonna use something from the first full paragraph on that page.

Carmela 30:21

Okay, this is fun.

Booked All Night 30:22

Okay. So, the very first prompt. The real reason the flavors of the Bay Festival almost collapsed was actually blank.

Carmela 30:30

I step around Seth who was trying to disrobe and grab an order of regular fries from our warming station.

Booked All Night 30:37

The worst possible person to discover a dead body at the festival is.

Carmela 30:45

The board explains how it works. Customers can pre-pay for a meal I'll later use to serve someone Clementine who needs it. No questions asked. It's my way of keeping things local and personal, even at a big festival.

Booked All Night 30:56

The board, the board found a dead body. Beth thought running a food truck would involve cooking, customers, and blank.

Carmela 31:08

Kleptomaniac, I correct her. When our bowling date ended, my lipstick hand lotion and glass case were missing from my purse. When I went to swap my rented shoes for my flat, I caught him red-handed trying to tuck my left shoe into his messenger bag.

Booked All Night 31:21

Cooking, customers, and kleptomaniacs. The police report definitely forgot to mention blank.

Carmela 31:29

Yeah, you're hot, alright, she says, waggling her brow. Hot for a detective and his swoon-worthy jawline. Or are you hot for the bearded customer with fries? This is really fun. I was like, oh, maybe this should actually be like a game night where we all grab books off of a shelf.

Booked All Night 31:49

It it so it was a game, it is no longer in print. Um, you can actually go to their website and pull up the there's a whole printable version of the game, actually. So you can make it.

Carmela 32:00

This is fun.

Booked All Night 32:01

Yeah, it's it's a hoot. It's fun. I love it. The real MVP of solving this mystery is actually blank.

Carmela 32:11

It's actually Adam shifts his weight glancing in the direction Katie walked. Seth, can I ask you something? Guy to guy.

Booked All Night 32:19

Every successful food truck needs great wings, loyal customers, and blank.

Carmela 32:25

Larry, I say flatly, is 37, unemployed, and still lives with his parents. He has a bad comb over and an unfortunate last name. Also, his mom tagged along on our date.

Booked All Night 32:36

The secret ingredient that absolutely should not be in the wings is.

Carmela 32:54

No chickens were harmed. It's all I think, yeah, she gets adopted by a chicken in this book at the uh festival. Oh no! A real chicken, yeah, silky.

Booked All Night 33:02

The secret ingredient should not be my emotional support chicken. Oh my goodness. If the investigation goes completely off the rails, it's probably because of.

Carmela 33:14

I nod to theme my coffee. Maybe we should print that on napkins or t-shirts or possibly life vests.

Booked All Night 33:22

And the last one, the most chaotic thing that could happen at fucking good is blank.

Carmela 33:29

Layla Gafford, Rollerburger, food truck, she showed up right after I found Brad. Could she have been there all along and arrived pretending to be innocent?

Booked All Night 33:39

That brings us to the final round of questions, and these are all very chaotic sleepover, sleepy haha kinda questions. You're trapped overnight at the Flavors of the Bay Festival after a storm knocks out the power. Which food truck are you hiding in and what are you eating?

Carmela 33:56

I'd hide in mine because I have a giant costume that would keep me warm. It's a giant chicken costume, and there's also a cow costume in this book, too. Um and I always have snacks in my purse. So yeah, I'd just pick mine. You're like, I'm prepared, so I don't know about the other trucks. I know I'm good.

Booked All Night 34:14

Which festival, which fictional detective would you trust the least to behave themselves at a crowded food festival?

Carmela 34:22

Like just across the board, a detective in general? Yep. Or oh, okay. Hmm. I feel like it would be Bosch. Um because and I was I was thinking, um God, what is his first name? Do you know who I'm talking about?

Booked All Night 34:39

Um Her Robin is Bosch? No, it's um It's gonna hit you at two o'clock in the morning.

Carmela 34:49

It is, it is. It's uh um he's he's a detective. It takes place in LA, but there's also a series, was it Tom Clancy? Trying to remember. Um, but it's Bosch, and he's just he's gonna do what he wants, however he wants, and doesn't matter if he ruffles feathers along the way, because he's gonna get his answers.

Booked All Night 35:09

You and Beth have a hot wings eating competition where the wings just keep getting hotter. Who wins?

Carmela 35:15

She, I cannot handle spice at all.

Booked All Night 35:18

Yeah, well, I can't either. I'm I'm a big baby about spicy food. Yeah, I've got I've I've got a couple friends that like bring their own hot sauce and add it to wings. You know, like they just are insane, all of them.

Carmela 35:34

Yeah, my husband can do spice. I can't. Uh I can barely do a peppercini.

Booked All Night 35:38

Yeah, I I can't. It I'm I'm very white about it.

Carmela 35:41

Connolly, thank you. It's Michael Connolly. Oh my gosh, there we go.

Booked All Night 35:45

Thank you, producer Rob. Yeah, thank you.

Carmela 35:49

I was kind of close. It was the letter C. I said I said Clancy, it was Connelly, kind of close.

Booked All Night 35:53

Yeah, it's it's there. We got there. We were no shame. You can recruit one fictional character to work a shift at Cluckin' Good. Who do you hire and what job are they absolutely terrible at?

Carmela 36:08

I'm gonna go Sherlock Holmes or Watson, and they're terrible at cooking.

Booked All Night 36:12

Yeah.

Carmela 36:13

And customer service, not good at customer service.

Booked All Night 36:15

Oh my god, especially uh Sherlock is especially not good at customer service. He's gonna be like, if they'll order something, he'll be like, no, you don't want that. And give them something completely different. If a murder mystery broke out at a farmer's market, which booth would secretly be the most suspicious?

Carmela 36:41

I don't know. That that one has me stumped. That's really good.

Booked All Night 36:45

I think I personally, I was thinking about this because I was like, yeah. I think it would be one of the the MLM booths, like the essential oil booths or the make your own little bracelet things, be like, mmm.

Carmela 37:02

Yeah, okay. And then I don't actually see too many of those at our farmers markets here. Um it's usually just like fruits and vegetables with and flowers and the occasional food vendor. So yeah, an essentials oils booth would definitely stand out here.

Booked All Night 37:15

Yeah, no, they're like all over every festival around here. Like, it blows my mind when they they come into stuff and it'll be like, it's a craft fair. Would you like to buy essential oils? No. Why what?

Carmela 37:31

Well, people they're there because people are buying them, so it's true.

Booked All Night 37:36

Oh yes, as producer Rob says, bath fitters at a craft fair, that's crazy. I've I've seen that nonsense. I'm like, what are you who? Why what compelled you to do this nonsense? If your character had to survive a sleepover with the murder victim, what would start the pillow fight?

Carmela 37:56

Had to survive the sleepover?

Booked All Night 37:58

Yes.

Carmela 38:01

Probably saying something about teriyaki because teriyaki teriaki becomes her baby.

Booked All Night 38:06

Baby chicken. Love it. I haven't even met this chicken yet, and I'm already so attached.

Carmela 38:14

She's got a personality, definitely. Um, I actually I have I have friends who own chickens. I don't. Um, and one has a silky, and so she was giving me a whole rundown of like what their personalities are like versus other chickens, and I was like, oh, they're the they're the little drama queens of of the uh chicken world. I'm gonna go with that.

Booked All Night 38:32

I used to date a guy whose family had chickens, and like he's like, oh yeah, I just gotta go out and feed them real fast. I'm like, okay, I'll come out. They come out like like the Velociraptors from Jurassic Park. They just come clucking around the corner, and it's like, oh, that's terrifying. I don't I didn't know that I'd be scared of chickens, but here I am. It's fine. Alright, you have to build the most chaotic sleepover snack table imaginable. Go.

Carmela 38:57

It's gonna be something with charcuterie boards. Uh probably different types of desserts and chips and dips. But it's all gonna be on one board. So they're all together.

Booked All Night 39:08

Just like one of those enormous paddle boards.

Carmela 39:13

Yeah, I mean, I do make charcuterie boards. That's that's one of the things that I love to do. Um, and it's always something like totally random on there. I have like lemon curd on one side next to jalapeno pepper jelly. Um so mixing those two up with some cheese and crackers is a that's that that ended badly. Um but yeah, but that's how probably it would look.

Booked All Night 39:32

I one time So one time 'twas my time of the month, and I always get like really weird combination cravings. Uh it's terrible. I uh you know, I hate it, it's so awful. But one time I was like, I really want like tortilla chips, but I also really want cookies. And we had scoops and cookie dough, and so I put the cookie dough in the scoops and I baked them. And when I wanted them, they were the most delicious thing I had ever tasted. And the next day when I was like, yeah, I'll just have this, it was the most disgusting thing I have ever put in my mouth.

Carmela 40:07

Uh there's no judgment for me. One of my favorite snacks is sour cream and onion chips with a green banana. So, you know, to each your own, however it works.

Booked All Night 40:15

And they just sometimes they fit, and sometimes it's just like, why did I think that this would be okay?

Carmela 40:21

What can be But it hit the spot at the moment, and that's all that matters.

Booked All Night 40:24

Yes. Yes, it is. The very last official question. If the animals in your house secretly solved the mystery before the humans, what clue would they uncover first?

Carmela 40:37

It's gonna be something with food because all of my cats are addicted to food. Um, and my dog, it would be something with shoes because she's always trying to get a walk.

Booked All Night 40:49

Mine if if Ringo, my baby boy here, ever saw something, it would definitely be from the trash.

Carmela 40:57

Oh, that's that's my one cat. She's always in the trash. But if there's food, especially if it's bread, one of our cats, she will chew through all of the plastic wrapping just to get to the bread. And it does not matter, but it and it's uh it's yeah, it's bread. Always bread.

Booked All Night 41:14

Ringo, so we have to keep a chair in front of the trash can to keep Ringo away from the trash. And the other day he got into it and he dragged a whole bunch of trash through the kitchen, out to the living room, up to the bow window, and back underneath the dining room table, which is like the entire second level of the house, and just all everywhere. And I was like, why?

Carmela 41:39

Why kind of what kind of dog is Ringo?

Booked All Night 41:41

Ringo is a uh retriever mix.

Carmela 41:45

Okay.

Booked All Night 41:46

Uh, and he is also a service dog and knows not to go in the damn trash, but that doesn't stop him when I sleep in a little.

Carmela 41:52

He wasn't working then.

Booked All Night 41:54

Yeah, no, it's important. He is actually like he's so when you are training a service dog, like you you train them with their vest on, and when we're done training, we take the vest off so that we know that like that behavior is when the vest is on, and when the vest is off, that's like not entirely expected. And man, when you take that vest off of him, he's like, ah! Like, I'm free, I'm free. Oh, I love that. Completely different nut job than when he has his vest on. So finally, and we ask this of all of our guests because books take a lot of people to get out there. Is there anyone that you would like to thank today who helped you get the book out? Anyone from workshop partners to editors, publishers, partners who didn't let you knee them in the balls, and so on. And if you did all of the work, then you should thank yourself because that's a lot of work to do alone.

Carmela 42:45

Um, no, it definitely was a team effort. Um, my husband has been so supportive since the very beginning when I first started in children's literature, and he lets me, with the exception of me and him, do just about anything I need to make sure that it's gonna be accurate. Um, I don't always warn him, but he just goes with it because there was one time I was like, okay, it says, hey, just sit right here and then I read it. She throws herself at him. He's like, What? And then, yep, I just, yeah. So he was a great sport about it. Um, my agent, Lindsay Guzzardo, is just fabulous. She has really taught me so much. She took my vision, helped me to see what needed to be fixed, and together we shaped this manuscript over nine months to go ready for submission. Um, and then my editor, Faith Black Ross at Crooked Lane Books is also phenomenal. She's taught me so much too. She saw the book, she immediately fell in love with the characters. It made her hungry. She loves the recipes. And so all three of us are on the same page. Kill my darlings, but keep the giant chicken suit. Um, and then, you know, just readers in general for taking a chance on me. I'm a debut, sharing part of your time with my characters and my writing friends too, who have listened to me complain, helped bounce ideas off of. And just overall being cheerleaders for each other.

Booked All Night 44:03

Love that. I love all of that.

Carmela 44:05

And just before Oh, and I was gonna say podcasts like you for inviting me onto the show, so thank you.

Booked All Night 44:10

Thank you. And you've been a wonderful guest. I'm gonna put this up on like one of my favorite episodes.

Carmela 44:17

It's the chickens, it's always the chickens, I know.

Booked All Night 44:19

It is the chickens. I'm I'm very invested in teriyaki.

Carmela 44:24

I promise no chickens were harmed in the making of the book. Well, I mean, at least no live chickens, you know.

Booked All Night 44:30

No live chickens were harmed in this interview or in the making of the book. Tariaki is a baby and will be saved for forever.

Carmela 44:37

Yeah.

Booked All Night 44:37

So before I go on my my outro ramble, uh, where can everybody find you online?

Carmela 44:43

I'm very active on Instagram and threads and Facebook. So it's my handles are across the same. Uh, author Carmela. So you can find me there. I love chatting with readers and also just sharing book recommendations. That's how my TBR keeps growing wildly out of control uh because readers keep giving me recommendations that I love, so please don't stop. Um, and also my website too, CarmelaDutra.com has all my links, has anywhere you can also send me messages that way. And if there are any authors who are reading or listening and viewing us that want to know more about querying and going on submission, I have a whole blog series there for them called An Author's Guide to Querying and an Author's Guide to Being on Submission.

Booked All Night 45:26

Very lovely, because being on submission in either of those senses is in fact torture and should be against some sort of global war crime initiative because it is nerve-wracking and not for the impatient. If you are impatient, you need a hobby to do in the middle of all of that.

Carmela 45:49

Yeah, definitely. Protect your mental health along the way. And so I'm all about sharing what I've learned. People have helped me, and I want to pay it forward.

Booked All Night 45:57

Lovely. Thank you very much. Thanks for staying up with us. Follow us on Instagram and threads at Bookdall Knight Pod. Drop a comment to let us know what you thought of today's show, and join our Discord server for giveaways, excerpts, and more. It's still in the works, but we're aiming for a hundred members. Catch our live author interviews on YouTube and leave a question for our guests on our Discord server. Check out our shop and website at bookdollnight.co. That's bookdollnight.co. And if you're loving the chaos, don't forget to rate us five stars. Until next time, booklets, and remember to stay booked all night.